For at least a decade my grandparents leased their farm to be used year-round by “big city” hunters for $500 per year. Over time, land slowly gets cut up and we’ve seen generations of “we want it now” types of people. As land gets passed down to kids and grandkids, it gets cut up and sold. More and more middle class people can’t tell the different between their lives and that of those who collect welfare checks. People who don’t work get housing with flooring, air condition, heat, etc, just like working people. They actually get heathcare they use vs. working people who don’t have time to go to the doctor only get “health insurance.” Non-working people get cell phones, internet service, NetFlix, Playstations, etc.
So when a working middle class family inherits land, they often times need to sell this off to catch up on bills basically because of inflation and taxes. Somebody has to pay for all these people on welfare. So how are lawyers to blame for rising deer hunting costs? Well, this isn’t provable of course, but my grandparents happily let people hunt their land for $500 per year. Do you think people in their 40’s today would allow strangers to hunt land for free or for cheap? Don’t you think most people of today are worried about liability and lawsuits? Yep.
In fact, during the bump stock crisis, I bought and sold one of them. She asked if I was concerned if someone was going to use it in a crime and I then be held liable for it. Isn’t this world sick? If I was worth millions, then sure some lawyer would try to come after me. I explained to her if she had a valid point, why wouldn’t they go after the manufacturer? Heck, whynot the post office for deliverying the item? Why not the people who manufacture the plastic to make the part? Why not the dairy farmer’s kid, who milked the cow, who sold the milk to the terrorist who needed his strength to carry out his crimes? The fact is we can be held accountable if you knowingly allow a person, aid a person, or not report a person who you believe to be an immediate or eminent danger to other. So now we have to pay insurance companies premiums to make sure if someone comes onto our hunting land, climbs and tree and falls out of it, that we have insurance to cover potential damages. With the cost of land at $2,000 per month mortgage for hunting land, $150 a month for insurance, seed costs, equipment costs, herbicide costs, mineral and corn feeding costs, fuel cost, etc., how much should deer hunts cost? Don’t forget the labor of the hunting outfitter! In fact, I’d argue that most outfitters do not make a single dime to be used to feed their families. They are paying on assets, that after 30 years, they will be able to pass it down to their kids.
I can take this topic too far if we look at it through eyes of aliens or GOD vs. simple humans. For example – Is going to your job to earn money, considering there is a .0000003 chance of you getting killed on your way to work, a form of gambling with your life? Answer: Yes. Do 75 year old ladies buy house and car insurance with money gambling on the fact that their house might burn down? Answer: Yes. It’s all odds created by the smartest Las Vegas mathematicians. Do preachers and the catholic church determine how much and how long they have to press people to tithe or donate money, based upon how much it costs to keep the doors open and the lights on and other financial needs based on the likelihood of their words inspiring people to reach in their pockets and give them money?
When selling Kentucky deer hunts and offered a wonderful hunting opportunity to kill a mature buck, you are in fact selling a “chance”? Placing money on “chance” is technically gambling. However, there are so many loopholes. I’d say hunting has to do with 99% skill vs. chance. You have to have the ability to breath, eat, walk, put on clothes, buy a gun, put bullets in it, etc. Oh yes, then actually have to hunt the deer in a way the deer doesn’t sense you first. In fact, unless your gun falls in your blind, goes off and accidentally shoots a buck in the kill zone, that’s the only “chance” involved in deer hunting.
At first I hesitated in writing this because I don’t want to see people ban hunting because they suddenly are considering it gambling. Then they want to tax it, etc., to pay for those who choose not to work in this country. But after thinking about it for 12 seconds, it’s a 100% a skill game. Scratch off tickets is a game of chance.
Mineral sites is like debating with your friends who is the best basketball player of all time. If you are God, with the mental ability to measure everything by parts per million, then there could be a “right and wrong” answer to this. Science specifically show that adding mineral sites to your hunting property doesn’t really offer a significant increase in size of your deer or the deer horns. Now in a vacuum where there is no salt or minerals in the soil, your neighbors aren’t putting out salt or mineral, etc., could having mineral sites increase your deer size and horn size noticeably? Of course. Most deer hardly live to be 5 years old though, so let’s face reality. If you fed your baby vitamins and minerals vs. candy, would you notice a big difference when he/she turns 5? And yes, I know there is a difference, but I’d guess deer life expectancy is closer to 7 years of age? Are they meant to live longer biologically? Yep. Do humans and preditors interfere with that? Yep. ***
Minteral sites are fun for outfitters! We like mixing, blending, finding good deals, looking at hoof marks, etc, throughout the deer season. Each time we’re required to do a mineral site, it means we’re throwing an extra 200 pounds of corn on the Ranger and feeing the deer. It means we’re looking at weed control and considering ways to improve the tonnage of any given Kentucky deer hunting food plot. Mineral sites are valuable, but not in a way you might think. There is just so much calcium and salt in the dirt, improvements on the quality of the herd are negligible in my opinion.
How big a property hunts This is a fun conversation that requires some explanation. How can hunting in Kentucky on 150 acres hunt like 300 acres? How can it only hunt like 60 acres? Let break it down to you like this. 150 Acres that hunts like 300 acres –
1. The property has an easement to it well off the road
2. The property has almost no road frontage and has a narrow strip of land taking you to the heart of the wilderness
3. The property is not around a highway, homes, lakes, traffic, 4-wheeler trails, next to a gun range, underneath an airport, etc.
I think you’re starting to see the different. Now for real value in home development, you don’t want the property that is in the wilderness near nothing at all. Property that is near large track owner is great! Property that is in a rugged area with lots of hills and mountain terrain is great! It’s property that doesn’t see a lot of human pressure and allows for more big bucks to claim as their home territory.
Not all deer hunting land is created equally. Having good neighbors that understand time spent deer hunting is money in your pocket that you could be spending on buying well fed beef cattle. Nobody can convince me that deer meat is of higher quality than that of beef. Cows s are fed for the purpose of eating. Deer eat for the purpose of survival. They eat and browse anything and everything they can for calories. Is it lean meat? Of course it is, but you can buy hamburger lean as well. And if you are a hunter suddenly wanting to pull out the argument that eating deer meat is healthier, I’m sure you’re making that argument after you just finished a cigarette or a handful of beers. I’m not buying it!
Deer Disease (EHD) – is it managed by the insurance companies? Everyone has heard of the blue tongue disease that hits and has hit the Kentucky deer hunting (and across the nation for that matter). The fact is disease is nothing more than natural selection. Humans interfere because we believe we’re at the top of the food chain, which we are, but we also believe we are more important than everything else. We also have a tendency to just look after and protect “life” if it has a cute or pretty face, is larger than most animals or just doesn’t inconvenience us. Flies annoy people, so it’s ok to commit mass murder. Other animals are cute and cuddly that have facial expressions if you were to run them over with your car. Generally if the death of another creature impacts any of the senses of a human, we get all concerned about it. Stomping an aunt vs. stomping an animal the size of a dog has a great degree of meaning morally and legally. That’s the most I’ll express my opinion about those who say shooting deer for sport is wrong and cruel, as they drip Ketchup from their mouth off a double beef cheeseburger from McDonalds.
First ask yourself, to whatever issue is going on, who stands to make a profit from this? Is it a small business owner or a big wealthy family/company? Is it easy to get caught if anyone were to conspire to control such a disease. After all, wasn’t it the big drug company reps who say why would they want to cure a disease to make a 1-time profit vs. treating a disease for 50 years? Are we a capitalistic society? Does everyone have the same moral compass? So is the car insurance companies of the world dictating or even creating disease that will help kill off deer that cause them a lot of profit loss? Probably not. Do they try to influence various state conversation rules and laws to dictate hunting seasons or at least pay for studies used to determine a “human” level acceptance of what should be considered a “healthy deer herd”? Yes. The fact is deer fill a niche void that can survive with human presence on Earth. They are elusive, non-domesticated, can live off the land and evade the predators well that humans allow to travel freely. I’m not sure how many 100’s of millions of dollars in damage deer cause to vehicles per year, it’s likely in the billions. I can tell you the more we resist and keep the right to best less efficient, and worry about profits as little as possible, the better the human race will be. Humans are not efficient and we will be scrubbed out the more efficient the global market requires us to be to survive; it’s only a matter of time before all this freedom is taken in exchange for efficiency and white-collar profits from “the man”.
Quality deer management is a term used loosely in the deer hunting community. Once you get into your 20’s and 30’s and have shot your share of “easier” bucks, you concern for quality deer management begins to rise for several reasons: #1) You don’t get to shoot bucks like you used to because most just want to go after bigger bucks than your biggest in the past #2) This is probably the most important reason, it’s actually a lot of fun “worrying” / planning for improvement on your land to improve the deer population and the size and health of the deer.
I can be opinionated, but that’s why you are reading this. It’s not just Kentucky hunting outfitters that pretend they are concerned about the “health” of the deer, it’s relatively accepted that the flavor of the decade is to shoot the biggest horns as possible. It’s been like this since Jesus was a baby and before. Tribe leaders would carry skulls of dead leaders on their horses (300) or leaders would wear the heads of the biggest lions, etc. This is completely normal. What people really mean when they say the “health of the deer” is growing the horns to be as old and as large as possible; just like they grow cows in fences (nobody seems to have a problem with growing cows in coups just to kill them). The na-sayers of hunting will also condem your interest in shooting Kentucky trophy deer as they strap up their leather belt, and run over millions of insects and smaller animals just because as humans, they can’t see the pain in the eyes of this little creatures…so it makes it ok for them to slaughter animals/life as long as they don’t see or hear about it…splat splat!! There was 10 more life-forms killed on their windshield on the way to soccer practice or Starbucks.
Anyway, there are no right or wrong answer here! It’s all about being human and having different beliefs. Where I personally draw the lines is going around and killing other humans because they don’t believe what I believe. Well, let me restate that, Americans kill humans for crimes either through the courts or through police officers, so that’s not entirely accurate either. Law and order is sort of required since the age of enlightenment and reason. Otherwise it would be the guy with the fastest and most guns still winning on Earth and the “smart people” would be washing my cows and horses while I’m out robbing stage coaches! It’s so easy to get off topic when you’re writing to essentially nobody. My UNFAIR ADVANTAGE ACCORDING TO MARK CUBIN IS MY ADD. Writing is my way of not acting out or coping with my minds non-stop thoughts. It’s like in the movie Superman only there is nothing “super” about me. Clark Kent can’t function in society because he’s distracted by his acute senses of the world around him; he hears everything. So his Earth mom teaches him to cope and control those fine senses. I believe I just got the belt as a kid to control my need to always be “busy”. As a result, I’m just a well-rounded person that is decent at about every possible activity/sport/game/hobby there is.
My passion is switching over to mortality and knowing it’s just a matter of time before we can transfer our brain signals and thoughts to directly live and have sonscious thought on a computer or internet. We will no longer need our human bodies to “live”. It’s not an uncommon belief, you see it on so many Sci-Fi movies. There is just a learning curve to it all. Look at it like the computer of today with technology and it basically started with a typewriter. Each lever has a function that engages another letter and creates a calculation. That slowly turned into a calculator that turned into a computer. It’s just about getting smaller and smaller and more effiecient and more effiecient until the need for humans is gone! We will ultimately render ourselves as useless and only the rich and powerful humans will live in time. Then they too will see a revolt like the Terminator or the Matrix. I’m not unique and people before me and smarter than me have already seen our future. In short, be like every other “naive person” or assume people who have already figured it out – be kind, laugh, love family and friends and hope there is life after death.
Anyone see the liberal ad that didn’t get published? It showed a video of a middle-aged trucker hat, fish hook on the bill, with guns hanging on the window from a Z71 jacked up pickup. Oh, let’s not forget a tall pole rising out of the back of the bed with dual American flags flapping in the wind. I didn’t notice a Kentucky Hunting Outfitter sticker thank goodness! And the best stereotype of for this ad that emphasizing we are all actually different and have different tastes whether you like it or not, the confederate flag license plate proudly mounted on the front of the truck. Before I get into describing the commercial, my personal belief is that if I’m in an ocean knowing sharks don’t like me because I’m human, I’m not going to force my American beliefs on the Great White Shark and force his mentality to get along with me and not kill me. Some people just give humans too much credit. So what does this have to do with Kentucky deer hunting or Kentucky outfitters trying to improve hunting for everyone? Well in the video it shows 10 year-old Iraqi kid who sees this nefarious pickup truck coming down his street where minority kids are playing kickball. This kid starts running, the pickup truck steps on the gas and roles out the diesel smoke (actually there was no smoke…the elitists who made this ad probably didn’t realize diesel truck can smoke and that is cool to do as well). So this dark complexion kid is running and jumping fences to save other kids from this pickup Trump supporting pickup truck. It was hilarious! They pulled the ad because just before its release, there was a shooting. It was felt because the shooter was in fact not a white person running over people with big vans.
I’m for the middle class…period. Since I don’t believe any rich politician has my back, you won’t find me taking any sides other than for the middle hard-working class. BONE COLLECTOR STICKERS: With it being “mainstream” and cool to place deer stickers on your trucks and cars, this helped grow the deer herd! It’s put public peer pressure on those going on Kentucky deer hunts to make sure they shoot a monster buck or you’re not cool! These stickers are mammoth 200 inch deer that could be putting an unrealistic expectation on our youth. It’s a growing process from your “first buck” is great no matter how the size! To shooting 8 pointers or bigger only, then graduating to judging bucks by how many “inches” they are and trying to improve on your personal best from year to year. In time, shooting a buck becomes more work than it’s worth, so you’re willing to pass on 120 inch deer in hopes they grow to a 140 incher and so on. The bigger the deer, the more willing you are to pull the trigger. Deer hunting in Kentucky isn’t a guarantee to come across a 150 inch deer in 5 years of hunting unless you go to a high-fence operation. Free range fair chase bucks scoring over 150 inches are a Kentucky trophy whitetails. I’m wondering about the negative impact of everyone promoting these large bucks on the backs of cars and trucks? Probably not much at all. When it comes to my advertising, I don’t get into the monster non-typical drop tine deer; I go for the traditional wide and tall 8-10 point bucks where the average person would have a reasonable expectation of shooting.
I’m affiliated with both Kentucky hunting outfitters and of course have many friends that hunt their own land or family land. Also, all Kentucky outfitters in the state were non-professions who simply spent time deer hunting in Kentucky on their own without helping others. Being critical of people is human nature. No matter where you are, what you’re doing or who you’re doing it with; think about it. How your mom cooks dinner compared to the past. The color of the house Carpet vs. hardwood McDonald’s forgot the extra cheese Pizza Hut forgot to include napkins Coffee isn’t hot enough We complain about anything and everything and there is nothing wrong with that. KENTUCKY DEER HUNTING even has its flaws and things to complain about.
What about the EHD crisis that is hitting eastern Kentucky? How does that change paying for Kentucky deer hunts? Well, I don’t think it does really because there are more people wanting to hunt deer than land available to them to hunt. It’s pure population growth and the value of land in America. It’s similar to internet speed. If the speed goes down, are you going to stop using the internet? Success rates might be lowered, but that’s only if expectations remain the same. Everything is and should be relative because we are only human; ie – we have a finite amount of time to enjoy life on Earth. If you go to any forum on the internet, I’m sure next to some bashing of a local Kentucky turkey outfitter who rips people off by charging to shoot them, you’ll find another place of someone ripping on Mother Theresa with claims she was nothing but a drug dealer – “It’s in the Geneva Convention.” Being a professional hunting guide or offering Kentucky deer hunts on property is “outfitting”. Providing clothes, milk or fuel is also “outfitting” someone’s needs isn’ it? Just because you can’t produce milk or meat in your apartment building in the city while making big bucks as a lawyer shouldn’t limit your ability to spend your hard-earned money for someone else to sell you milk, gasoline or a Kentucky whitetail hunt….right?
Should those who re-sell Kentucky deer hunts on leased land be required to follow certain rules? Should those who own their own land who offer Kentucky deer hunting for a fee be given rules and regulations?
Would the rules look like this:
#1) Only 1 hunter per 76.3 acres of harvestable timber with a diameter of 10 inches or bigger with a tree count that must exceed 26 trees per acre, but not to count land within 200 feet of any sinkholes or 400 feet of any residential dwellings. Also, only 1 hunter can hunt this land every 14 days, unless an animal is harvested on the 2nd hour of the 1st morning hunt, etc.
Do you see what happens with people with agendas start getting involved and wanting to force their beliefs on other people? FREE MARKET. It’s really simply.
You should vote with your wallet. Just like when we vote during elections, but I’d rather see us “vote” through the use of IRS tax returns. Do you want to pay for entitlements for people who can work, but choose not to? Check “yes” if you want to pay for it or check “no” if you don’t. It’s that simple! Don’t force me to pay to use my extra spending money just because you only spend money on coffee, taxi rides and going to the gym. Any extra money taken from me is the money we need to go on 1 vacation a year! Now for some people, they can ski behind 6 yachts, so they don’t mind giving up 1 of their yachts; they still get to water ski! So governmental involvement is never the solution for me. I’d like to hear suggestions or ideas.
The concept is pretty simple to me. A piece of hunting property costs $25,000 or more per year in just mortgage payments. Then you have to pay for upgrades, wages, etc. Unless you believe in NO MINIMUM WAGE, then you can’t expect Kentucky hunting outfitters to work for free. I personally believe Kentucky outfitters work just so they can keep land in the family and pass it down. Very few make enough money to justify how many hours they put in compared to sitting home and collecting a welfare check. I bet welfare pays much better! Yes, they get exercise, but welfare people can go out and walk during a work day as well. Any time you include government, it’s never cheaper. It just means more regulation, more insurances, more attorney fees, which is all passed down to the consumer. That’s just the nature of business.
Success rates do not determine costs of Kentucky turkey hunts or Kentucky deer hunting experiences. Maybe in a macro-economic way. Selling deer hunts is a finite product. Large property owners aren’t set up on the corners in town where goods and services can be purchases on a daily basis. These services are only offered a few months out of the year and they are offered by less than .01% of the population. Even more of a factor is that the very “product” the consumer would like to purchase isn’t controlled by the property owner. The deer and come and go at well. And even more interestingly, it’s a “product” that if considered to have a 100% success harvest rate, that “product” suddenly becomes of NO VALUE because it’s then a participation trophy. It’s like stepping on an aunt or killing a fly. It’s guaranteed and anyone can do it. So, the concept of deer hunting and putting a price based on “success rates” might be compared to Gucci handbags. If the price of Gucci handbags are $10, then nobody with money would want them. If nobody with money wanted them, then they certainly aren’t cool to those who don’t have any money. Exclusivity is what is being offered and the difficulty of hunting and killing the animal. It’s a fascinating question to me.
Now we can identify outliers with this question being posed to those wanting to deer hunt in Kentucky. For example, if a Kentucky deer hunt costs $10,000, would could expect the success rate being rather high or at the very least, if the chances of shooting a deer is 50%, then you’d be shooting a $20,000 deer. Well, you need add costs of the outfitter, etc., but I didn’t want cloud the theoretical issue. How about looking at success rates like this. The amount of mature bucks in an area is finite. Well, “mature” is a relative term, so let’s so 140 inch bucks in an area is a finite number. If success rates are 75%, and assuming the owner wants to make a profit, and let’s assume the amount of land the person owns is limited to 500 acres vs. owning the entire Earth, then it would be safe to assume shooting at this hypothetical deer ranch should cost $15,000 or so? Maybe more? So if the same property owner is charge $200 and advertising a 75% success rate, knowing a fair market of 130 inch bucks to 200 inch bucks range in value from $3,000 to $12,000, you could assume…well…you could just assume this person is lying…lol. Sorry, I flawed my equation. Actually, you could assume this property owner will have no more bucks in the years to come AND they will go bankrupt because $200 per hunt doesn’t cover a $5,000 per month mortgage.
Looking at this even more. If advertised success rates are 25%, which has been common historically during bow season (probably much less if you factor in all hunters…plus you have to factor in how much time spent in the woods being a “unit of measure” of some sort because there is a difference between spending 24/7 in the woods for 2 months and killing a buck = 100% success vs. a 5 day hunt 6 hours per day and killing a buck = 100% success. CONCLUSION: This is a complicated topic with many variables I’m not qualified to speak about. More accurately, can success rates determine hunting rates? Answer: 100% yes.
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